Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Yo, it's effective immediately. I'm DJ Head.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: What up Hip Hop Nation? It's your favorite homegirl, Gena Views.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Yes. We have a legend in the building today. And I have been so. I am so excited to have this conversation. If you hear the claps in the background.
[00:00:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: The one and only Mr. Richard Lawson is here with us.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. My pleasure to be here.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, before I knew your name, I knew your face. And I'm sure that's the case with most legendary actors. As far as like when, you know, like, I'm like, I seen him and I see him in everything.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? And then like you said, we were just talking off air. Like you've had a 55 year career.
That's impressive.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Especially when it comes to acting. People here today, going tomorrow.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: And then also in what we do in media, rap people have a five year rap career. Sports athletes, they last six years on average. You know, before we get into all of the stuff we need to talk about.
I know you. I want to plug the book because I feel like that's really important.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So the book is the, the, the Artist roadmap.
And what it's about is, is that, see, it's not enough to be just a good actor or a good singer. You gotta, you gotta really have an understanding of everything. It's got to be 360 degrees. You got to know how to be accomplished artists and then you got to know how to monetize that fact. How do you have to. How do you create the business with it? You know what I mean? It's not. You just can't be good enough. It's like in the old days, you know, you could go and you can make your little tape and you could do all of that. But if you can't produce or you can't write, or you can't control your own destiny, if you don't understand the business, it's in somebody else's hands. And so you got to take it out of other people's hands and own your own shit. I mean, stuff.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: No, you can say whatever you want to say. This is, this is satellite radio. We can get. You can say anything you want to say. Okay, okay.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: Okay. Good, good, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so, you know, I try to teach people how to navigate the business because it's not about, you know, being an actor or being Hollywood. Is plan B for me. Plan A is the. What I envision it is what my dream is. It is what I create. I need to know, first of all, why I'm doing this. What is my purpose? What gets me up every day? What do I love? What do I do? Well, you know, how do. How does it land on other people more than anything else in the world? Because if I'm just saying. And I'm just doing for me, okay, there's a little bit in that. But when I'm doing it for others and I know who I'm doing it for, then there's a whole life that comes with it, and there's a reason for me to get up every day and do it. So for me, I'm driven by how can I help people achieve their dreams? And so everything I do is about trying to help others to understand what their talent is, what their possibilities are. And that's really what my book is about. About, you know, well, before you.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: I mean, you talking about realizing those dreams before you were an actor. Am I. I'm correct. And you were in the. In the service. You're in the army?
[00:03:17] Speaker C: I was in the military. Okay. We did a little research. I got.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: I got some questions for you.
[00:03:22] Speaker C: We did a lot of research.
Look at that. Yeah, look at that.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: I don't know what time we got, but we got questions for you.
[00:03:28] Speaker C: Okay. Okay.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: But you in the military and you were a medic.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: I was a medic.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Okay, so when did. When did. Cause we all. We have a lot of people who have dreams, they want to be rappers for whatever reason. A lot of people want to be rappers. We need more doctors, right?
[00:03:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Okay. But when did you make the pivot? Or when did you realize that, speaking on the book, I guess from that perspective. When did you realize the pivot? Like, okay, no, I'm doing this as opposed to doing that. Was that just a means to an end for circumstances?
[00:03:57] Speaker C: Well, first of all, I got drafted in the military. I was in college, and then I was also. I've always been a businessman and thinking like that. And so my cousin hit me up and said, hey, man. And he was like, an expert in moving antique furniture. He was the king of that, you know. And he said, look, I got this truck, and I'm, you know, I want you to be. Come be partners with me. So I said, let me drop out of college for a minute. I was playing football. I was going to be out for like three or four months. Bob bought this truck. We were specializing in antique furniture. Government said, no, no, no.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Come on over here.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Come on over.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Here, come to death row.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Come, come the death row because we sending your ass to Vietnam. And so I went to Vietnam as a combat medic. And, and, and man, I mean, I must have seen 350 people die, dead bodies, you know, and. But the, but the beauty of it was that the medic, I was the only one that actually touched and said, hey, let me see that. That boil is infected. Let me take care of that. And that touch, you know, really opened up the vista of saying, hey, Doc, can I talk to you? So I became a psychologist and therapist and listener, and Jody. Jody was killing him, you know. You know, Jody is. Jody is that guy at home. There's a song ain't no sense in going home. Jody's got your galangon sou off with. Jody was taking people's wives and their wives was getting pregnant and, you know, while they were in Vietnam and they were broken hearts and stuff. So I got touched. I mean, I was able to help people deal with the psychology of it. And so it really taught me about human beings. And that was the beauty of that experience, you know, And. And it was also my first. Not my first one, but my first conscious lesson in terms of turning trauma, turning chicken shit in the chicken salad word. So when I came back, you understand, I knew how to. I knew how to just instinctually turn that around. I saw my mother do it. I saw my grandfather do it. I read. I heard about my great grandfather who bought himself out of enslavement and then went back and bought his brothers and sisters out, and he became a large landowner in Lafayette, Louisiana, you know what I mean? So he turned that into gumbo. And it's like, how do you turn things in the gumbo? You know, I mean. And so that's one of the things that I. That is. That is part of my book. Is upcoming book is about, you know, process, pivot and proceed how to take chicken shit, turn it into chicken salad. How do you take. How do you turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, Manure into fertilizer? Because that's. You don't have no other choice.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Especially looking like us.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Looking like us. You have to have. You have to be able to have radical acceptance, you know what I mean? To be able to turn stuff and turn it your way.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: So did you experience any of that adversity when you first got into Hollywood? Did you experience, like. I mean, I know you probably did. Prejudice has always been a thing, but you always hear the stories, the back door conversations as far as, like, well, they didn't let us participate in this, like, because you were, you went to war and you saw all of that trauma and whatnot. Then to come back and then face more adversity, to break into cinema.
[00:07:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it's all in how you look at adversity, you know what I mean? I've been, excuse me for saying it like this.
No. Always made my dick hard.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: I'm with you.
[00:07:51] Speaker C: You understand?
[00:07:52] Speaker A: I'm with you.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Tell me no. That's how we get down to tell me no. Yeah, watch this.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: The name of our show is called Effective immediately because of our employment status changed and they terminate you effective immediately. So me and her clicked up and started this show.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: Love it, love it, love it. And so, so in that sense, coming into Hollywood, I understood early on that I can't expect nothing from them. I got to go get it myself. So I started producing my own stuff, started producing my own plays, started writing my own stuff, started teaching other how to be self determined. My whole premise in teaching is learn how to do it yourself. Let Hollywood come and tap you on the shoulder, say, hey, we want you to do this. And it's like, oh, well, give me a minute, let me work it out. Because I got shit I'm doing, you know what I mean? I got to make space for this. I'm not dependent upon that. My whole life is about not wanting to be dependent on others. Because every time I drop into that, you know, it's like, you gotta learn this lesson again.
You know better. Yeah. You know, operate and depend on your own self and create a crew of people. You can't do it by yourself, but you got to have a community of people who think the same way you do. You know what I mean? Your, your, your, your.
What's the, what I want to say your, your fate is inextricably bound by the group to which you belong.
Your fate has to do with the group you belong to. Now is it the group you create or is the group you fall into? Are you at effect to that group or are you one of the leaders of that group? You got to lead the group. You got to be one of the leaders of the group of positive people, you know what I mean?
You gotta stay away from negative niggas. You just gotta stay away from, you know, you got to stay away. Oh, man, you know what I mean?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: I am so glad that you are here today.
You have no idea.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: You wanna stay for the show?
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: I do wanna thank you though, for your work and everything that you've done. It's an honor to even sit here with you. I looked through your imbd and I had realized. I'm like, oh, shoot, you have over 100 rows. I wanna say it said 136. Maybe more than that.
[00:10:27] Speaker C: That's not. Everything is not on there.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: That's what I figured. So I went through and I pulled all of the ones that I was. Cause it go back to Touch by an angel. Like, before that?
[00:10:35] Speaker C: No, it goes back. It goes back. She's a rare. In my head. It goes back to Dirty Harry.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. It was stuff on there, and I'm like, I don't know what this is. I called my mama last night. She didn't answer. I wanted to tell her that I'm interviewing you. But, like, some of the ones that I remember, obviously, the Blackhamptons, that's newer. Sister. Sister Moesha. Half and half. The Cosby Show, The Michael Jackson Searching for Neverland, being Mary Jane for colored girls, all of us, Guess who? The Bernie Mac Show, House. Ella Got Her Groove Back. The Parenthood, and then the Tyler Perry ones. We gotta get into the Tyler Perry stuff, right? Divorce in Black, House of Pain, Beauty in Black. And I already said it for Color Girls.
[00:11:15] Speaker C: Right, right, right. Color Girls was the first time I was directed by Tyler.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Really?
[00:11:21] Speaker C: That was a great experience. There's a lot of. Lot of thoroughbreds in that one.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: When you, as a cast member, when you read the script, are you guys as entertained as we are as the viewers? Cause Tyler Perry got some stuff.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: Hey, look, when you first read Tyler Perry's stuff, you say, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah, I'm doing what? Oh, no. You know what I mean? And then you find into it because it's a very particular world.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:49] Speaker C: You know, that family, the Belleries, are like. They're like no other. You know, they're like. They're like. They're like. I was also on Dynasty, right? Yeah. They're like Dynasty on steroids with a little bit of acid thrown in. You know what I mean? It's like out there, you know, we do some insane stuff. These are crazy folks. Yeah.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: I just watched your brother stab somebody in the hand last night on episode nine or ten, I think it was.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: Okay. Okay.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Spoiler alert.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: If you ain't watched it, you gotta catch up.
[00:12:23] Speaker C: Yeah. I can't see, I can't say none of that kind of stuff. I can't talk about what, you know, what happened. What happened. You know? But it's just. Believe me, every. Every episode you're gonna be saying, damn.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: So I'll go ahead. Sorry.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: No. Well, I wanted to. You're from California, right?
[00:12:40] Speaker C: I grew up in Oakland, California and partly in Riverside. My mother was a single woman. Her sister lived in Riverside. So early on in my life I was one year in Oakland, one year in Riverside, one year in Oakland, one year in Riverside.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: So you're from the bay and ie, huh? You from the bay and the ie?
[00:12:59] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Inland Empire. Yeah, the bay. Yes, exactly right. I'm from the bay and Inland Empire. And then in summertime I was in Louisiana in the country.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Did you ever have any roles? Maybe my memory is like shot and I can't remember. It's not on the Internet. But any roles in like some of the west coast based, like urban films.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Let me think.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Did you know who I thought this whole time?
[00:13:31] Speaker C: Who?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: No disrespect, I thought you was Nate.
[00:13:35] Speaker C: Nate and set it off. Oh, no, no, no.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: So I came in here with all these natives. Sometimes we go look at him. Like, that's not even him.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: No. You know who. People get me confused for at least 5,000. This is no exaggeration. 5,000 times in the 40 plus years we've been knowing each other is Lawrence Hilton Jacobs.
He was welcome back Cotter. He was in, he was in Cooley, Cooley High.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I can see that.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: You know, he's.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I can see.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: I mean, I mean all the time. And that's my, that's my brother, you know, but we get confused all the time. All the time. Just the other night I presented award. I presented an award to him, a lifetime achievement icon award, you know, And I was waiting to go on and the guy was. Had the program. He says, oh, good, okay, Lawrence. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm Richard. I'm presenting. Oh, okay. Right behind him, the other girl said, I'm glad you're here, Lawrence. So let's go. I said, no, that's him over there.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: That's him.
[00:14:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: Who.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: What's the wildest person you've ever gotten mistaken as? Like, what's the wildest one that you could think of?
[00:14:52] Speaker C: You're not going to believe this.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: It better not be a white person.
[00:14:55] Speaker C: No, no.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: But you will not believe this.
I was the first black man to star in a series in Australia. This is in 1976.
And the people who threw the produced it. They threw this party. This was.
I forgot the name. Their names anyway. They were like the Aaron Spelling of Australia, of Australia. So they had a dinner party for me. And the wife came up and said, Mr. Lawson, please, I'm begging you, just please do this. I'm so embarrassed to say this, but my housekeeper came to work tonight, and the only reason she came to work is because she wanted to take a picture with you. She's the biggest fan, but she thinks You're Sammy Davis Jr.
What?
I said, first. First of all, I don't crap to my eye.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Did you take the picture?
[00:16:01] Speaker C: I did, Yeah, I did.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: He was fraudulent.
[00:16:07] Speaker C: I did. I did.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: He rhymed off a Sammy Davis coach.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: Hey. I didn't want to ruin the evening for the Crawfords in the Crawford. I didn't want to ruin the evening for the woman I felt like such a hoe.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: You signed the autograph.
[00:16:24] Speaker C: I signed the autograph.
I signed the autograph.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Well, here's your autograph with Sammy Davis Jr.
Have you. Have you seen Brown Sugar?
[00:16:33] Speaker C: Huh?
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Have you seen Brown Sugar?
[00:16:35] Speaker C: No.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: What is that the movie Brown Sugar with Saniya Lathan and Taye Dix? There's a. It's a clip from it where they.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: Say, oh, yeah, no, I.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Did people say that to you?
[00:16:45] Speaker C: I did, yeah. They said, can I play it? Yeah, please.
I.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Oh, it's not playing.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Turn it up.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I was the. I was the. She was around with.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Play it.
[00:17:12] Speaker C: Look, look, somebody told me. They said, do you know that you're in a porn?
I said, what.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Are you.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: No.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Hell no.
[00:17:27] Speaker C: Hell no, I wasn't.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: Are you, though?
[00:17:30] Speaker C: Hey, IMDb they accused me of looking at porn, but I was not.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: You're not on there.
[00:17:36] Speaker C: No, they. But, but. But the character's name was an actor, a handsome actor named Richard Lawson who was doing the. He was the porn star in this movie. And I'm saying, why they wanna cannibalize me like that?
[00:17:51] Speaker B: That's a sick porn name.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: A real name.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: They confuse you for all type of people.
[00:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah, look, you have no idea.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Boy, I wanna dive into some of this. Cause we gotta get through this, okay?
The Beauty in Black. Yeah, it's drama. You know what I'm saying? It's teeth, it's strippers, it's prostitutes, it's domestic violence, it's people getting AI technology being used. Yeah, it's all kind. And you. So the last two Tyler Perry things that I've seen. Or. Actually, I'll get to that later. But the beauty and black thing for me, I got two takeaways. I want your opinion.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Okay. So from your character, specifically, Norman, I'm diabolical. You don't want to mess with him.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: And I'm like, norman, don't play about his wife.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: So here's the thing, right? The whole time leading up to the second half of the series, your character right now, I'm talking part one.
[00:18:52] Speaker C: Was.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: It Ena Ena, bro? When I'm looking at it, I'm like, okay. But then I'm like, why are you the boogeyman? Cause we just had this rap battle. I don't know if you heard about this Drake and Kendrick Rattle. And it's like, so, you know, they calling Kendrick the boogeyman. And on the series, everybody, like, I forgot her name in the show. I mean, her real name.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: Mallory.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: No, the bitch. No, no, no.
She is that.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: She is that.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: He could cuss. He been going off in personified.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: She is that for sure. But the one, your adversary, the one that's threatening the older lady.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: Oh, oh, Olivia.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: Olivia. She's, like, treating you like you the boogeyman. Like you don't want it with him. I'm like, well, what did he do?
And so I'm three episodes trying to figure out why you the boogeyman. And then you obviously, you know, it gets more.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: It evolves.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: It evolves the layers.
[00:19:44] Speaker C: He don't play.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: He not playing.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: He ain't playing.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: How do you prepare for a role that's that layered? Because obviously, when you do, like, she lamed off your whole catalog. But I'm looking at stuff like Sister, Sister. I'm looking at stuff like the Bernie Mack Show. Those aren't as layered because it's not a developmental thing for that character. How do you prepare for a character like that?
[00:20:06] Speaker C: Well, you know, it's interesting that you ask. Cause I was just having this conversation with Kingsley outside. In terms of.
I have a whole process that. In terms of.
I invented a character chart that is. You know, it's about science and anthropology to create the dimensions of a character. And what I create is kind of like an architect's model of the character where I put it on this chart. And I have 16 episodes in this case. And all the scenes that I'm in. And I'm looking at emotional through lines. And I'm looking at, you know, his rage, his anger, his guilt, his jealousy, his love, his deep love for his wife. I'm looking at all these things, and I actually create this whole chart of this character before the first day of shooting. And it's scientific, what it is. Science is the systematic study of something.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: And anthropology is the cultural, the behavioral, the social, the emotional, spiritual aspect of man. And I'm looking at all of that in terms of Norman and I system systematically put it in a way so that in every single scene, I know exactly what he's feeling, what he's playing, what he's thinking, what he's wearing, what his makeup is, what his hair is. You know, I have it. I have. I create this model. So when I show up on the set, I am very dialed in to who he is and. And what his relationship is with everybody. Because as fast as we work, you have to have that kind of clarity. Otherwise you throwing shit against the wall, hoping it sticks. I'm to do that, you know, so. So I have a. I spend. I. I mean, I probably spent 2, 000 hours on Norman because I bring my assistant with me. I'm rehearsing in the car. I'm rehearsing in the shower. I'm rehearsing at breakfast. I'm rehearsing. I'm rehearsing in between scenes. I'm going to the gym. My girl is right there. I'm on the treadmill. We're doing stuff. I'm lifting. She's there. I'm. You know, it's intense. It's intense.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: It kind of like absorbs your life at that point, you know, become that character.
[00:22:26] Speaker C: Right. If you think what Kobe Bryant does.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: Or what. Or what LeBron or Seth does to prepare, that's me. In terms of preparation, that's a great comparison. And the thing is, is that, you know, the. One of the greatest compliments. And I never said this to him. The only reason I know it is because my girl was standing right behind him.
Somebody came on the set. Devon Franklin was on the set as observing. And I did a scene and he came out and he said. He said, man, he said, I forgot how much of a.
Yeah. It's hard for me to say, but legend that you are, it was respect, respect, respect, man. And he went back and he stood behind the thing, and my girl was standing back there because I was getting ready to do the next scene. And he said, man, Richard Lawson says to Tyler, you know, so and so and so. And Tyler said, yeah. And the 78 years old and knows every word.
That was like. Yeah, that was like. She told me. And it was like, see, that's mad respect in terms of. That's the kind of respect that I want is to show up, be ready. You know what I mean? Cause I did the work and I put the work in. And it's like at the end of the day, when you get to that place where you say, shit, I'm tired. The question is, what would Kobe do?
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Damn, I love that. I'm a Laker. I'm from la. We both from la. So. Yeah, I'm with you.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: What would Kobe do?
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[00:24:08] Speaker C: He'd be there before everybody else.
He's the last one to leave.
And he got three. He got three practices in during the day. That's me.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Is any of your character, are you doing any type of improv or you just remember everything from the script?
[00:24:23] Speaker C: Well, sometimes you have to do a little improv because you know, you got a volume of stuff.
No other show, no other director, producer, works like this. Not even close. Not even close.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: What do you mean, work like this specifically?
[00:24:41] Speaker C: Well, we shoot so fast. We shot 16 episodes in 12 days.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: What?
[00:24:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
Some days we would have 105 pages.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: They turn around time quick. Cause sisters be dropping, like.
[00:24:56] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And so therefore.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Are you serious?
[00:24:58] Speaker C: No, I'm serious. But everybody's down for it. Because his way he shoots is so intuitive. It's reverse. So everybody shoots from master to close up, right? By the time you get to the close up, you'd have done this scene 30, 40 times. Wide shot, wide shot. Little tighter, little tighter. Two shot, two shot, over, over, tighter, over, dirty, over. So and so and so and so. Two, three takes each way. So that's 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14. 6 to 8, 20, right? 22, 24. Depends. He works. He gets the close up first. The other way, by the time you get to the close up, you dry because you done it 40 times. I gotta cry 40 times? No, for a close up, he's got the close up. So it's like you bring it and then work back out to the master by that time. And you don't have to cry out the master, cuz ain't nobody gonna see it.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: No way you're giving away the Tyler sauce.
[00:25:53] Speaker C: Hey, I dare somebody to try to do it because he's got it down to a science.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Word.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: What's been your experience working with him outside of the 16 shooting in 16 days?
[00:26:01] Speaker C: Let me tell you something. Tyler, first of all, he's a great man. If you see what he created, you got nothing but mad respect.
There's not a blade of grass in 300 acres that's out of place.
All the people there, 85, 90% of the people was black when I first got in the business.
Is there a brother that's working?
[00:26:31] Speaker A: You kind of feel like what they.
[00:26:32] Speaker C: F to do, what they fitting to do.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: I know you know What?
[00:26:37] Speaker C: I mean, but. But with Tyler.
Well, there's. There's some white people here, but these are Black folks. Folks there. 300 every. All departments, women on the camera.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: One. There was a woman who was. Who was the main camera person on the shoot. On one shoot. And he was really so generous to her and kind. He's just, you know, here's the. Here's the thing.
So the.
My girlfriend, I love her to death. You know, Ms. D, she's the. She's the tailor and she's a sweetheart and I love her. You know, I mean, they had to go and do a reshoot in. In the Bahamas.
And she came back and she said, Mr. Perry treated us like kings and queens. No, he's talking about the crew.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Who can say that?
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: The man is just. He's amazing sense of give is just beyond.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: I remember talking to Charlemagne about. About what Tyler's created. And they. Everybody, not even just him, everybody I've ever talked to about what he's created say is. Is the same expression. It's just. And I have nothing but respect for it.
[00:27:53] Speaker C: I have nothing but respect for him. And he's. He's. He's a. Mitch, have there.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Has there been any. Has there anything that he's ever. Because, I mean, obviously I have a working relationship, but I'm sure you have a friendship at this point. But has he ever gave you any critiques on what you do specifically? Like, anything that he might have gave you, like, hey, I want it. Like, obviously he's directing, but. Or this is his material, but there's anything that he's offered to you in that way?
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Well, first of all, he hires people who knows. You know, he hires secretariats.
You know what a secretariat is?
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Like, somebody know what they doing.
[00:28:29] Speaker C: Secretariat is the greatest horse to ever live. So in this part, he hires somebody he knows is that part and hire. So all he has to do is just give you a little something and he'll redirect or he'll shape. But most of what he does is he puts helium into you to go and to do. And he's not afraid because he knows he can cut it back. He will cut the cloth too long. You see, it's really simple things. If. Do you sew.
If you sew, you cut patterns, you create patterns.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: I sew the track down.
[00:29:06] Speaker C: You saw you.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: I know what you mean.
I'm picking up what you put in there.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: So you cut the cloth too long so that you can shorten it back. But if you cut it too short, you gotta give it away. So he cuts the cloth too long. Cause he knows that he can come back and shape it the way he wants.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: You know what I mean?
What he's created is really, you know, magical.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: Can I get into one of these scenes and then I'll let you. But so the boardroom scene from part one is one of my favorite things. I want to talk about the opening scene in Divorce in Black, but that was. Why.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: That was crazy.
[00:29:50] Speaker A: I was. Wildest shit I ever seen in my life. But whatever.
But the boardroom scene where y'all. You come in there and they having. They doing they thing and you set it off in there.
I want to know what it's like when it cut. Because, like, the Beauty in black scene is like one of them iconic scenes to me in black cinema, where it's like, this is. These. This is happening all across the country in real life. Like, families are into it and whatnot. And then this name calling, it's no holds barred. But you're acting, right? But it's some of that gotta be like, you gotta pull from a real place.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Oh, you do have to do stuff.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Like that, in my opinion, because you. I didn't look at you like, oh, this is Richard Lawson acting the great team. Like, no, I'm like, oh, no, they killed his wife. He tripping on.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Yeah, that's.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: That's how I looked at it.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm pulling for me. It's just like I told you about Vietnam, right?
So, you know, you pull from like the time when I. Like the time when I did this.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: They had me effed up, huh?
[00:30:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the time when I was in. When I was in Vietnam and my partner, Lee from the Bay.
My partner. My partner.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: I caught that.
[00:31:11] Speaker C: My partner was the next Kenny Burrell, and he got his arm blown off and I went and picked up his hand, like.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: Right, you just went and picked it up.
[00:31:22] Speaker C: I picked. It was in the road, like.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: With your bare hands?
[00:31:26] Speaker C: With my bare. Well, I'm a medic. And my bare hands. I picked his hand up and that's all that was there. And he was. They. He. They put him in the helicopter and I took the hand and before they took off, because maybe they could sew it back. This was Kenny Burrell, the next Kenny Burrell, and that was his dream, right? So to look at and call upon something like that, and you call upon that kind of pain, you know what I mean, in the behavior of that kind of pain, then I can Pull. Listen, listen, man, I didn't had so much trauma in my life. I have so much to pull from that. You know what I mean? When I. Listen, I pulled from. I saw my kite, my cat get killed by three coyotes right outside my window. That messed me up more than as much as anything. And it's really up. Why? Because the fact that it was like, no, man. No, my no. And I ran to the door and I went to the door and I said, nigga, you naked.
I said, the first place a coyote is going to go is that he's going to go right for your dick.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: Hell yeah.
[00:32:39] Speaker C: And it's like, that's going to be a bad week.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: I do not want to laugh right now.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: And I didn't go. And I felt bad because I said, you could have saved your cat, but you was worried about your dick.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: That's not a bad worry, though. You know what I'm saying? You know, hey, if it between that and the cat, it's like, but you.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: How did y'all shoot the opening scene of divorcing Black without laughing because they take the. Out the casket?
Like, how did you do that with a straight face?
[00:33:18] Speaker C: Let me tell you something.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: So when you read that, it got to be crazy.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: No, no.
So. So Sunday night, we're getting ready to go to shoot on Monday morning.
So I'm doing my work at midnight. It was like, okay, I'm gonna shut it down. Boom.
Now at 12 midnight, I was a father who was concerned about his daughter being mistreated and abused.
I'm just a father worried about his daughter. I'm not a preacher.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Got you.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: At 2:00 in the morning. I get it. Ding on my phone. I look at it. New script. So I got up and read it.
What, I'm now a preacher in the church at a funeral. Yeah. And now it's. The character has changed and. And the show starts shooting in four hours, five hours, right? So it was this complete flip around. It's like, well, you know what? I have to give him mad respect for trusting me that he knew that I could make that turnaround. Now when we shot that scene, that was the wildest.
That was the wildest.
So it was like, I just have to preach this in a way that just turns it all the way out, you know? Cuz now I'm talking about this boy going to hell and his family going to hell. Right? And. And that this man is probably at the gates of hell trying to. If he could come back and say, no, y'all don't do like I did. You know what I mean? Don't. Because y'all are going. You don't want to go. I'm looking in this hell here, and you don't want that. Yeah, that's basically what that's about. You know what I mean? But that was the wildest scene I ever seen in cinema, right? They take him out of the casket.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: So how do you. How do you then, like, when. Like she said, like, you. How do you stop or not? How do you stop yourself from laughing? You professional. But I guess when the scene is cut, my question, I guess, would be like, do y'all like, man, that was fire. Like, you know what I'm saying?
[00:35:43] Speaker C: Or do you.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Like, even in the boardroom scene where you went up, like, you called him. Like, I think you called him the son of fruitcake or something like that, and it's like, do you. When they yell cut, do you apologize? Or it's like, it's just work. Or like, look, do people take it personal?
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Do you be feeling it?
[00:35:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, I be feeling it.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Like you and your little fruitcake brother.
[00:36:01] Speaker C: Look, damn, I'm ready to go there, you know what I mean? You know, so that I'm. When I. I buy into it, I'm into it. You know what I mean? I'm. I'm living it. And. And ain't no apologies, you know what I mean? We actors, you live in it. And so you got to make it real for yourself, because the character, I mean, the people, the audience has got to believe you. You got to see. You know what I hate more than anything else?
[00:36:30] Speaker A: What do you hate more than anything else?
[00:36:32] Speaker C: See people smoking that don't smoke, they on the scene saying, yeah, you know? Yeah. It's like, wait, hold up.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: It's like, forced.
[00:36:41] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like, I don't believe that. Yeah, you didn't really. You're not a smoker.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: You didn't pull that. For real.
[00:36:46] Speaker C: You didn't pull that. You didn't pull it in. Enjoy it. And you don't see the smoke come out for two or three seconds, and then it starts to come out. You don't. You didn't. You know, really.
So, you know, if I'm gonna do. I'm gonna learn how to smoke a damn cigarette and just take chances if this. That's why I don't. With guitar cigars, right? Even though I have cat, is that. I don't know. I can't make a somebody believe that. My friend Glenn, you know, and certain people, they live with Cigars. And they can make that. They can just have it in their hand. And you believe it. Yeah, I have it in my hand. And it looked like a prop.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: So I ain't messing with it.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: You and Debbie Morgan have a lot of you guys shared, like, multiple sets together. Are you guys friends in real life?
[00:37:34] Speaker C: We're friends in real life. We have incredible chemistry. You know, the characters that we played in Divorce and the Black.
I think a series should be created with those type of characters because the fact that they were loving parents. Yeah, they were the kind of parents that everybody should have. You know, the father. The kind of father that was a protective, loving, understanding, patient father, you know, would go and kill for his daughter, but he still. He had a love for. For her that you. Every woman should have that kind of father.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:15] Speaker C: You know, and so what it represented was a black couple that was like the ideal couple that everyone should. Every black person should have that kind of family.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: I love you guys together in general.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: Like it. You to me, you got. Cause you guys raised us.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Like you two raised us. But yeah, I love you guys together.
[00:38:36] Speaker C: That's true.
Your mom. Your mother and your grand. I'm big with grandmother.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: You leading the league in grandmothers.
[00:38:48] Speaker B: That's a granny snatcher.
[00:38:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: Do you have. Cause you are on Guess who. And you were also in the Bernie Mac. You played a pastor in a Bernie Max shit.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: I did.
[00:38:58] Speaker C: I did. I did. I played the hell out of that pastor.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: Do you go to church?
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I go to church. I'm not religious. I'm spiritual.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: Any memories of Birdie Mac?
[00:39:08] Speaker C: Great memories with Bernie Mac. Great. Bernie was a wonderful guy.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: Bernie Mac taught me how to cuss.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: He is a good cusser.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: Yeah, he's good.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: That's son of a. Son of a. Son of a. Bit the way he says son of a. Son of a. That's some of.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: Some of a summoner.
[00:39:27] Speaker C: Something like that. It was fun. He's funny, but he was great. I did the Bernie Mac show, but I also did Guess who. And we were working nights in Pasadena, and between the scenes, you know, there was like a hundred extras. And he would come out there and he would just have people on the floor because he kept people engaged and kept people interested. So that. Because it's cold and, you know, it's so easy to get disinterested. But he did that because he understood that if he kept them engaged, they would be better in the movie. Yeah, he was a good guy. He was a good guy.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Other actors Like I saw when Denzel Washington kind of like, I don't want to say passed the torch, but that's how we use it in hip hop to Michael B. Jordan. Are there any other brothers that you see who you like, would like? I see you, like, are you doing your thing?
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Let me just say before that, though, Denzel, me and Sam Jackson And Denzel and CCH Pounder did a play in New York in 1977 on the mobile tour by, written by Richard Wesley, was one of our great playwrights called the Talented Tenth. I mean, not the Talented Tenth, the Mighty Gents. And so I know Denzel and we had a great time working on that show. Yeah, Luke James, who's one of my students.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: Okay, one of your students.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, Luke. Luke. He's. He's. I'm like a mentor and I work with him on.
He first came to me when he first job I, I helped him get and then I've been working with him ever since. I don't know if you saw them. Yeah, you saw them. He killed that, didn't he? He killed that. He killed that. You know, we worked on that together and he's, he's also. Did you see him on the New Edition? Yeah, we worked with him on that. You know, so I've worked with many, many, many, many great actors over the years. I've been teaching for 40 some years, and so I've had 45 years, I think, and I have had the opportunity to work with great, great actors.
My mentor, Milton Katsellas, I was his protege. So he taught people like George Clooney, Michelle Pfeiffer, Patrick Swansea, Giovanni Ribisi, Doris Roberts, Jenna Elfman, on and on and on. And Jim Carrey, on and on.
And I taught, had the opportunity, because I taught his classes as well, to sit in and contribute to their, to their process, if you will.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: Is there any actors that you probably slept on where it's like, man, that person really did their thing and I didn't. You might not have saw that when you, when you early or anything like that.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: You know, it's an interesting thing. I've seen a lot of people with a lot of talent, but it's what they did with it. You know, I saw people who had talent and they weren't doing anything with it and then woke up and then the work ethic kicked in, the discipline kicked in. They found they were able to find their purpose.
If you can find your purpose, like why you're here.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: The why? Yep, the why. I always talk about everything I Talk.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: About that all the time, you know? And it's like when people find the why and it's not linear. You find it when you find it, but when you find it, it wakes something up in you and it gives you a reason to get up every morning. When a person finds that, then they attach themselves to something that has meaning and that has. It's like the North Star.
It never goes out and it never wears out. You know what I mean? And it creates a kind of energy, a kind of. What's the word? Am I looking for vibration?
When they walk into the room, the frequency changes the air, and it's like, who is that?
[00:43:59] Speaker A: Is there anything. Cause I know we gotta wrap up, but.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: Nah, the frequency be changing when I.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: Did you ever get a chance to work with John Singleton or even, like, Spicy movies?
[00:44:13] Speaker C: I did John Singleton, actually. I worked as a coach on Abduction.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Really?
[00:44:20] Speaker C: Where? Yeah, John Singleton called me and I worked with him, and he said. He called me his secret weapon. Because the young people that were working on the show, he had me to work with them, and I did the chart with them and really helped them out.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: This is a physical chart that exists?
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a physical chart.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: I need that chart.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: I want to see it.
[00:44:43] Speaker C: Oh, you know, one day I'll come and show it to you.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:46] Speaker B: I have two more questions. What was it like for you seeing your daughter on Queen Sugar?
[00:44:51] Speaker C: My daughter? You know, I played my daughter's father twice with Debbie Morgan on We the People. Right.
And she's so good.
She's like one of my favorite actors. Not nepotistically, just because she's just that good. She's one of the great listeners, so that her acting is without words. You know what I mean? And my biggest challenge was working with her and staying in it because she was so good. It was like, damn. And I got into this admiration thing, and it's like, play your part, boy. I'm really proud of her as an artist.
[00:45:36] Speaker B: Yeah, she's.
[00:45:37] Speaker C: She's. She's been an artist since she was 9, and she's now 45. And so she's been an artist longer than most people in the business. And she's just really a. She's a. She's a hell of a talent.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: What's your daily regimen? Because you look so. You're, like, active. You don't look 78 at all. What are you. What are you eating? Do you exercise?
[00:46:03] Speaker A: Vegan?
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I want to eat whatever you eat.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: Finally, I get to pause her.
[00:46:16] Speaker C: Listen I'm talking to DJ Head. No problem.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: I'm with you. I'm with you. I know exactly what he eating.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: What's the diet, nigga?
[00:46:29] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: Look, that is very important reason is because I'm trying to defy gravity.
I saw somebody like 70 years old on doing this comedian. Hilarious. Hilarious. He was hilarious, but he was like.
And it was like. I'm trying to be upright. I want.
This is. Excuse me. My goal in life is to be able to have sex at 105 and be on top for five minutes.
[00:47:13] Speaker A: Hold on, I got two more questions. Cause we got a wrap.
[00:47:15] Speaker B: We gotta go pull these whole fetishes.
[00:47:17] Speaker A: No, listen.
She's a card game. It get crazy. Look.
Cause I wanna get these two questions off before we go. A role that you seen where you wanted to play that role.
[00:47:30] Speaker C: I wanted to play and I had the script and everything. I wanted to play Robert Thomas Alexander Dumas.
You know, Alexander Dumas wrote. Wrote three Musketeers. You know, man in the Iron Mask, Count of Monte Cristo. Robert Alexander Thomas. Alexander Dumas was a general in the French army. And he and Napoleon were competitors. And they chose Napoleon to run it. And Napoleon actually poisoned him to try to kill him. But those three. And the son, Alexandre Dumas pere and Alexandre Dumas fille. The son wrote Camille the older. The other brother was like the king of Paris. And then you have this general that was legendary. I wanted to do a miniseries playing. Producing it and playing the general.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: Last question is.
I don't traditionally date, so I frequented a couple of actresses right in my time.
Just calm down.
Are you reluctant to date other actors because you don't know if they are being genuine? Because I. That was in the background.
[00:48:51] Speaker C: I don't, I don't. Look, my thing is about frequency. It's all about energy and a vibe. I don't care what they do, you know, it's at the end. The only universal language is frequency.
It takes. It takes. It takes three seconds to fall in love. And the rest is denial.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:49:12] Speaker C: And falling in love is about a frequency. It's a vibe. It's sort of like chord music, you know, music. If the. If the chord structure, it creates music and beautiful. It's a harmony.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:26] Speaker C: Discord is like toxic. And so it's in terms of an energy that you feel and that if you don't deny it, you know, and then you do the. The due diligence of, you know, communication and all those things where you respect the frequency, then beautiful things can happen, you know, it's not about what you do, how much money you got. None of that. You know, I don't care if you're an actress. I know some incredible actors.
[00:49:53] Speaker A: Well, I'm not saying what they do. I'm just saying I don't know if she was real or not. She would cry, and I'm like, I don't know if she acted or. Oh, well, you know what I'm saying? But anyway, I'm sorry.
I'm just looking for tips, you know what I'm saying?
[00:50:05] Speaker C: You didn't know whether she was operating from a script.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: I didn't know, you know what I'm saying?
[00:50:09] Speaker B: You thought he was getting played.
[00:50:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I got trauma, you know what I'm saying? But thank you, bro. I appreciate you.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Oh, no, one more thing.
Happy birthday.
[00:50:18] Speaker C: Hey, hey.
I'll take that.
[00:50:24] Speaker A: You're a Pisces. You a Pisces?
[00:50:26] Speaker C: I'm a Pisces. I'm a double Pisces.
[00:50:29] Speaker A: What does that mean?
[00:50:29] Speaker B: What does that mean?
[00:50:31] Speaker C: My sign is Pisces. My rising sign is Pisces.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: Oh, you got all of it.
[00:50:35] Speaker C: And then my moon is in Virgo ago.
[00:50:37] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
[00:50:38] Speaker A: He know. He. I see.
[00:50:40] Speaker B: He know what he doing.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I know what you doing. I, I, I need you learn a.
[00:50:43] Speaker C: Few things after you've been here for 20 minutes.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: Beauty and Black season. I mean, Beauty and Black, Part one and Part two is out right now on Netflix. Man, go get some of that.
[00:50:52] Speaker C: See it.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: I really, I'm. Thank you so much. Like, I really appreciate you being.
[00:50:56] Speaker C: Hey, look at Mr. Richard. Lawson hit me up on. On all the. He outside, Mr. Richard.
[00:51:04] Speaker A: Tell him you outside.
[00:51:05] Speaker C: I'm outside.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: Richard lost.
[00:51:10] Speaker A: It's effective immediately. Yes.
